Transcript: Finding Purpose in Your Life (EP81)

 

Intro (with music): Welcome to The Culture of Things podcast with Brendan Rogers. This is a podcast where we talk all things, culture, leadership and teamwork across business and sport.

Voiceover: To all of our loyal listeners, The Culture of Things podcast will now also have specific episodes produced for Youtube. To ensure you don’t miss out on this exclusive Youtube content, head on over to Youtube, click the subscribe button and hit the notification bell. Now, let’s get into the episode…

Brendan: This is my conversation with Alex Lee. Alex is a CEO, community leader, founder, ultramarathon runner, and a seriously great human being. Most importantly, he's a leader-driven by his purpose to help people. During the conversation, we unpack how his life of service started with his own call to the Kids Helpline when he was just 14 years old.

We learn about his time helping refugees and asylum seekers, and the challenges that come with it. How his work at KPMG, an opportunity to help people, and falling in love led him to his role as CEO of The Glen, an award winning drug and alcohol rehabilitation center. We talk about the influence of his mom, learn what gives him the courage to follow his purpose, the 7th generation principle, what the emu on The Glen shirt signifies, and the legacy he hopes to leave.

We also explore how his discipline, habits, and consistency led him to become the first Australian to run 10 marathons in 10 days, each under four hours, not to mention breaking the course record on the last day—his 10th marathon.

At the end of the interview, I share my three key takeaways. I'll also share details on how you can see and learn about the significance of Alex's tattoos. Let me know what you think of the interview. Good, bad, or ugly, we love to get your feedback. This is the Culture Things podcast. I'm Brendan Rogers. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Alex. Let's get into it.

I'm really interested in your definition of purpose. What is the purpose?

Alex: Purpose to me is the why and the drive behind any action or everything that you do. To me, that's a simple definition of purpose. I find that for me, I make sure everything that I do, there's purpose and meaning behind it and when there is that meaning, life is simple and it's happy. Whether that's work, self-care, learning—everything, once I know the reason and purpose behind it, there's actually less to think about.

Brendan: Can you think back to when actual purpose became significant for you?

Alex: I think the purpose for me would have started in my childhood, especially my teenage years. I guess my story really starts from high school. I started at a high school where I didn't have any friends. A lot of my peers in my primary school didn't come to the same high school that I did and so I was a bit of a loner, a bit isolated, and what that led to was a bit of bullying in my early days.

Year seven and eight I had to figure things out and adapt to the situation. I spent a lot of time in the library, a lot of time by myself. I think I probably developed a lot of avoidance and running away, but it was when I was about 14 when I entered a very dark depression, which really started my journey of figuring out who I was and what my purpose in life was.

I was depressed. I saw the school counselor, I saw the GP. My mom was a huge support for me—I'm very close with my mother—and the turning point was when I was really really struggling. I think I had some issues with other people and relationships. I was at a point where I really wanted to give up and had some pretty harmful thoughts and I called the Kid's Helpline at the time.

I can't remember the number now, but I remember dialing the phone on the old phone in the good old days. I called the Kid's Helpline and just someone on the other line for 10 minutes really shared some rational thoughts and broke down what I was feeling and why. It got me curious to try and just seek more help. I think just having someone who called and picked up very quickly as well gave me so much relief.

That broke my chain of thinking and so I spent lots of time with my school counselor. I often avoided the school counselor, but then that was when I started to see the counselor regularly. Through the sessions, the piece of advice that I always took on board was Alex, if you want to kind of feel happy, you have to surround yourself with more happiness. I was like, that makes sense. You got to do happy things, surround yourself with positive things and positive people. You just need more positivity in life.

I kept working with the counselor. We did lots of exercises. She mapped out my week and we highlighted what was giving me positive energy and what wasn't. That was when I started doing lots of community work. Obviously, at that time I was very shy and I didn't want to do stuff with a lot of the things that she recommended in school and doing volunteering through the school programs. I was like, no, I don't want to talk to people. I'll just find something myself.

I just started doing Clean Up Australia days around my local area. I set one up in the local creek behind my house, I set up a site. I was the only person who did it when I was 16 years old, but over the years, more and more people joined that site.

I think the second year I did it, there was a couple who joined, a bit of an older couple, my brother joined, and then it just started building. By the end of it, I think we had probably 15 or 20 people helping out, cleaning up the local rivers and that's when I felt so much happiness and meaning and just helping the environment. That's where it started.

Brendan: When you look back at just the relationship you had with the counselor, what thoughts, emotions, and feelings does that bring for you?

Alex: Now when I think back on it, it brings me joy. I guess I found that courage to ask for help and get it and I see that as a positive turning point in my life. To me, that was the change, because what I remember from life before that was quite depressing, lack of self-confidence, no self-worth. I was always putting myself down.

Since that day I still see a counselor or psychologist regularly. I still have self-doubt sometimes, but being able to talk to someone through it, work out my rational thoughts, and getting help, haven't looked back since then. The emotions that I feel when I think back to that time, I think was my turning point and that led me to what I do now.

When I started doing community work and volunteering, that just became part of my life. That became my purpose and happiness. Even through university, when I was studying full-time, I still made the time every weekend after uni and through the holiday breaks volunteering. It has always been part of my life.

Oftentimes people ask me, do you want to go to the party on Friday? No, I'm volunteering on Saturday. At the time it's a bit weird. These are the uni days, these are the glory days. I said, no, that's what I do. I got into a bit of a rhythm. I just tried to do everything.

Once uni kicked in, it was a fresh start. Mental health was a big passion of mine at the time. I really wanted to find out a lot more about mental health because of what I went through, the depression, bipolar, and anxiety that I went through. I really wanted to figure out and learn more so I volunteered to do lots of event management at Beyond Blue.

I volunteered for this online forum through the Inspire Foundation, which is called ReachOut. It was all about finding causes that you're passionate about and we did blogs and online videos. I love doing that. The other one, which was a really big part of my life, was helping refugees and asylum seekers settling into Australia.

At the time that I was getting bullied, I was actually getting bullied by a lot of new migrants who came to Australia, and it was probably my fault at times because I would speak English well and often tease people. I think my mouth at the time didn't contribute to reducing bullying. I worked with a lot of refugees and asylum seekers all through uni.

On weekends, we had programs where we took people out on excursions and camps. We had homework clubs. We worked at Villawood Detention Center. The organization was run purely on volunteers so I met some amazing people who dedicate their weekends and time to help.

Often that brings me back to what the councilor said, do you want to have a positive life? You go surround yourself with positive people. I met an amazing crew of positive people there. I think that's why I prioritize it because that was what made me feel good, but then also allowed me to help others as well. I think there's a huge mental health benefit through volunteering.

Brendan: Just to be really clear, what is Alex Lee's purpose?

Alex: I would say my purpose is just helping people. I think everything I do now is always thinking of how I can be helping people, how I can make sure that I'm in a good state of mind and at my best to be helping others and helping the community because I know that that's my purpose. I'm always looking for opportunities to do that.

Obviously, my job is about helping people, but then also outside of work, all my hobbies and everything I do is just about helping people. When things come into my life which aren't aligned with that purpose, it's actually quite easy for me to say no to them.

Brendan: Give us an example.

Alex: Sometimes people ask to go out for dinner and I'll go along and everyone starts gas bagging and gossiping around the dinner table and I'm like Jesus, this is actually not good for my mental health or helping me out. Oftentimes I'll decline invitations if it doesn't really align with that. Time is precious, and if I get invited to things that I don't feel like align with my purpose, I'm going to say no to it.

Brendan: We'll talk a bit about The Glen moving forward, but pre that, is there a moment that in all of that volunteering you've done even before volunteering at The Glen, before coming CEO, that really sticks in your mind as that solidifying moment of this is what I'm dedicating in my life to—helping people.

Alex: I think there were probably two big moments in my life. I think the first one was I was working full-time at an accounting firm at KPMG and I went up to my partner at the time and said I want to take a career break. He was like sure, what are you doing? I said I'm going to help set up some programs in the offshore detention centers between Christmas Island, but I'll spend a lot of time in Darwin as well at the Northern Immigration Detention Center.

I told him I was going to volunteer to run activities and make sure the refugees and asylum seekers are living in the centers we're having a good program of activities because I had an opportunity from the Department of Immigration at the time to help run a program there. I guess the partner looked at me just quite blankly and said okay, Alex. Sure.

Brendan: I got nothing.

Alex: He said this is the first time someone has asked to turn to do that but we'll support you and you tell us when you want to come back. I said I think it's going to take about 9–12months for me to set up these volunteer programs. I'll keep in touch and I'll come back when I can. That was a big turning point for me because I tossed that decision around in my head for a bit of time. I was working in a great place. I was learning heaps, but this is also an opportunity for me to really make a difference.

At the time, detention centers were getting very full. The Department of Immigration contacted me and obviously our team. I think that was also when I got my first tattoo, which says live without fear, and I just jumped. It was probably the most challenging nine months of my life.

I look back and I said that was where I learned so much. I was managing close to hundreds of volunteers who are spending weeks on end at the centers, volunteering, and organizing fundraising events at the same time as well. It was hard, but that was another big turning point when I knew that was what I wanted to do.

Brendan: What was the hardest moment in that experience at nine months or 10 months?

Alex: I think at the time, I was organizing a big fundraising event at the same time because we're running on volunteers and I was living between Darwin and Sydney, kind of flying back and forth. In Sydney I was organizing these events. In Darwin, I'm kind of running the volunteers there. I was in my early 20s at the time and learning how to manage people who weren't getting paid, hundreds of people, was a huge challenge.

Learning to motivate and inspire and what I always call keeping people's cups filled. Dealing with stressful situations was a huge challenge. Organizing the fundraising event for a new organization, again with volunteers, was very difficult as well. I think event management can be very stressful.

Brendan: Absolutely.

Alex: Juggling that all while studying was not easy.

Brendan: Given that situation and certainly understanding leading volunteers and some of the mindset that goes with that, how did you fill their cup, so to speak?

Alex: It comes back to purpose. The first thing I needed to understand was their purpose and why they are volunteering. Everyone comes in with their one whys. I need to figure out somewhere there really just for some to come as a social activity, others will come because they want the kudos of doing charity work. There were others who generally had a deep-seated connection with refugees and asylum seekers. Really understanding their why and making sure we find the right opportunities and activities and things for them to do which are aligned with their purpose, I think it's really important.

Those who come and it's a social activity and they want to just talk alone and hang out, make sure I might make that person the team leader who can touch base with everyone, have a chat, have a catch-up, and make sure everyone's doing okay. Someone who's a bit shy but really a bit more organized, but really wants to do some of the hard work, they put them into organizing programs.

We had uni students who came in just to learn more so we'll be teaching them things and letting them try and fail and try again. Really understanding people's purposes was for me the most important part of managing them.

Brendan: You mentioned your mom a bit earlier and all moms are great, absolutely, but you mentioned your mom was a significant part of Alex Lee in his youth. What's that significant? Share a bit about that.

Alex: I'm very close with my mom. My mom's Heidi. I would describe her as one of the most compassionate, selfless people I know. We're very close. We've got walks together. We go on holidays together.

My first job was with my mom. She worked on these harbor cruises in Sydney. I remember it was New Year's Eve and she goes, Alex, come help me out on the boat. It's a public holiday, come help out. I was cleaning dishes, peeling carrots and potatoes. She gave me an opportunity because at the time I needed to do a bit of work and make some money. It was always the [...] walks back.

We finished work at 2:00 AM and we walked back to, I think it was Central Station, and we walked past homeless people. She's always thinking about how she can help them and always gave me the perspective that we can always help people and that really got me. She always gets me curious to change my perspective on things.

Brendan: There's a story that I know when I was doing a bit more research around you. We've known each other for a little while, but still there was a lot I learned. You're a private man, as you said. You don't share a lot, not because you don't want to, you just keep things private. There is a story I heard about coming across a homeless person that your mom asked you, I think, Alex, what do you see there? You want to tell us about that?

Alex: Yeah, my mom asked me, what do you see? I said I saw a homeless man. Then she changed my perspective because she sees a beautiful human who might have just had a bad chapter or made a bad decision. I think that, again, comes back to purpose. You look at something or someone. You don't just look at what you see. You got to look at the whys or what's happened and that has always implanted a bit of curiosity in my head to look at the why and everyone's got a story. She definitely kind of instilled that in me.

Brendan: If this why thing, this purpose thing, is so important and you're living your life driven by this purpose, why do you think it's not seen to be that important by what would seem to be so many people in the world?

Alex: I think we live in a very busy world, a lot of information, and I think it's not something that's really taught in school. We get taught a lot about the what and the how, but we never pause to think about the why. I love reading books and love reading history and once you kind of get to know everything, you can start seeing that behind everything we do and have in this world, there is a why behind it and if you understand the why you can see why it's there. I think it's just a way we're taught. At some point, it got lost.

Brendan: You did work at KPMG for a number of years. Seven or eight years, I think you said. How does KPMG and purpose and Alex Lee help people come together?

Alex: Good question. I look back and think about coming together as well. I think my route towards working at KPMG was I actually really do enjoy working with numbers.

Brendan: I had no idea.

Alex: I found my strength. I love numbers. I love things organized. I really knew that in high school, I think in year 12. I just found some old books the other day and I've got a 12 month study calendar of exactly how many hours on what subject I'll be studying every single day between the start of year 12 to the HSC, which test papers I'll be doing and mapping out. I could do at least 10 years worth of trial papers before the actual HSC. I had a bit of an organized and pedantic mindset.

Brendan: That's your nickname?

Alex: The Organizer. Yeah, that was my nickname. My friends gave me that nickname.

Brendan: Again, we've known each other for a while. You're a man of a few words, but we're what you say is very meaningful and I think that's a classic in your LinkedIn summary. The LinkedIn summary is a couple of sentences. One of them is that my nickname is The Organizer. I can't remember what the other thing was, or something about numbers, maybe.

Alex: I think it's The Organizer. I run Ultramarathons.

Brendan: That's what it was. I'm the Organizer and I run ultramarathons for fun. That was it.

Alex: I think that sums up my life.

Brendan: Should we end this podcast? As we're talking, there's a lot of purpose behind those two statements.

Alex: Yeah, exactly. I think being organized, that's kind of my way of dealing with my anxiety. I think through school I learned that I was always so anxious about the future, I had to put things down on paper and that really eased my anxiety. It might be over the top, but for me, that's what works for me, having some. It's the thing about you getting anxious about stuff you can't control and then you're trying to control it a little bit. For me, planning allows me to feel like I'm in a little bit of control.

Obviously, now I learned that life always throws curve balls and plans have to adjust, and I'm good at doing that as well. At KPMG, I love business studies, I love economics, I love math and naturally was the safe option at the time. I think when you're in high school through uni, that was a career path and a lot of people talk you to try to get into the big four that are amazing places to learn.

I applied for some internships and I got in. A lot of people say that the big four accounting firms, they're really hard. You're going to work long hours and I had this expectation of what it was going to be like.

When I got in, I met some of my favorite mentors, managers, and leaders. They laid the foundation and platform of who I am now. I learned so much of how to do things, how to manage people through working there. They supported me through my career breaks and my wanting to do this and do that. They were so supportive. Looking back, there were some very long hours, but not having said that, those are the challenges and times we just learned so much.

Brendan: What do you think are those couple of things? Maybe through that experience and that time at KPMG, a large organization globally, that have stood you in good stead and carried you forward so well.

Alex: The big things are learning about being organized and coordinating. I had the two years of [...] where I moved to KPMG London. I had some amazing opportunities to work for some global teams. I was working on some huge global audits. Simply organizing a face-to-face meeting of partners and managers across 32 countries was really hard. Different time zones and organizing different things and bringing all together flights, genders, meetings, and learning about calendar management.

Time is obviously a very precious and valuable asset that we all have and managing that well, managing priorities, learning what's important and what's not. I had some very driven mentors who made me learn how to do things efficiently and understand processes.

Thinking about audit, living in the audit world for so many years, getting the opportunity to go into different companies and see how the money comes from the customer to how it ends up on a financial report, I actually found that very fascinating. All the systems and hands that it goes through and making sure it's correct, you do learn about everything in life is a process.

Organizations are a complex system of different processes. Again, that comes back to understanding the why. As customers, we can see things on the front, but there's a whole chain of processes and whys behind why things are the way they are.

Brendan: You mentioned your career breaks through that sort of KPMG series, my head goes straight to what was KPMG doing or what was that environment not filling your cup because you needed career breaks?

Alex: I worked in financial services. I have to be honest, a very interesting industry, but it wasn't my passion. I really wanted to get involved and learn about sectors which are helping people more directly. I love to learn and I think that's what was missing in my life. I still continued to volunteer when I was working full-time at KPMG. I volunteer wherever I am in Sydney or London. I ran volunteer programs whenever I could.

Working full-time, spending the amount of hours I was working, there were days when you forget about purpose. When I was entering the assistant manager levels in an accounting firm, there's lots of admin involved. A lot of things weren't as purposeful. I couldn't directly see the purpose of some things at the time. I love teaching. I ran lots of workshops on the insurance sector and how that worked.

Brendan: That sounds riveting, Alex.

Alex: I made it riveting.

Brendan: I'm sure you did.

Alex: I tried to.

Brendan: You are an out of the box thinker as well.

Alex: When I first started learning about insurance, you watched a little video and someone is talking on the video, I'll probably watch it five or six times to really get it. I'm a visual learner, so I love to learn different ways to teach people. When I ran those insurance workshops, I used a mixture of whiteboards and interesting videos. I love doing case studies. I want to mix it and mix it up a bit and so I ran those workshops because I put my hand up to say I want to teach.

I love teaching because I love helping people learn. It gave me the opportunity to test different teaching techniques., but at the end of the day, the content wasn't my passion. I knew a lot about insurance, but I couldn't say that's the passion that wakes me up in the morning.

Brendan: Mark is an old insurance guy and I can sort of hear him getting excited behind the curtains there. Just you talking about insurance gets him excited.

Alex: We'll have to catch up afterwards. [...].

Brendan: I'm really interested to know what has given you the courage to follow your purpose?

Alex: That's a good question. I think there's two things. I think one thing that has given me the courage is knowing I have that support network. When I take my career breaks I'll tell my mom and dad and they'll always support me and they have supported me when I go off and volunteer. I volunteered a year in Thailand and obviously when I'm volunteering I do not have much income and so my parents would always be here if you need a place to sleep. I think having the support network is one that gives me the courage and ability to chase that.

I think the second one comes back to my story of when I called that Kid's Helpline and someone helped me. If I now have the ability to help someone else, I know how important that is. That simple phone call really changed the trajectory of what I do now and if I can help others do the same, that's what gets me excited about life.

Brendan: Let's talk about The Glen.

Alex: Sure.

Brendan: Because apparently those fields you cut right now have done for at least the last eight years or so. What's your role at the Glen?

Alex: Right now I'm the CEO of The Glen. We call it Glen Group now because we have two rehab centers, a 35 bed facility for men and 20 beds for women. We provide drug and alcohol rehabilitation, but it's holistic rehabilitation so it's physical, mental, spiritual. What I love so much about The Glen is how much the community is part of the healing and what we do.

Just this morning we were planning on how we could help all our neighbors through the flood clean up. That's something that we've always done and not only does it help by helping others, people are actually helping themselves, if that makes sense. Community is a huge part of that. It's hard to describe how important the community is, but it's the fabric of what makes The Glen work, and I just love it.

Brendan: Can you unpack that a little bit more around helping the community actually helps yourself as well. What does that mean? Where have you seen that take place?

Alex: I think by helping others or helping the community, people are able to understand. It gives people an idea of what their strengths are and shows people that they have the ability to help others. That gives people a lot of self worth and self confidence. There are times when we're sad or sad in life when we look at ourselves and we're no good, but by giving people the opportunity to go out and do something good for others, getting a nice compliment can actually make people feel like they got value. Feeling valued and feeling self worth, is a big contributor to loving ourselves. I think that's a really important part of mental health and our happiness.

Brendan: How did your path and The Glen's path cross? How did this love affair start?

Alex: It crossed back in my KPMG days. I was in my last year of working at KPMG, it became the last year.

Brendan: You didn't go to The Glen thinking it was going to be your last year, did you?

Alex: No, but it did. After returning from London, I got back to Sydney and I went back and talked to my partner and said I'm back in financial services, but I really want to get into the non-profit sector. Maybe if I could work in that space, do some audits of charities, I'd love to do that. Opportunities didn't pop up at the time, but I kept my head down, kept working, and then an opportunity did come.

It was about April 2014 and there was an ad that came up through the [...] program. The [...] program is a non-profit that connects corporate people with Aboriginal community controlled organizations. An opportunity came up to head up to The Glen and work and help out with finances, budgeting, bit of reporting two days a month, and just do some volunteering. When the ad went up, no one in the firm signed up for it and so the partner forwarded it to me because he knew that it always has to be about trying to get into the community.

He forwarded it to me and said Alex, check this out. If you're keen, you can head off. I said, oh, it starts in three weeks. I'm like I’ll just go check it out. I came up to The Glen and went to the [...] induction for a week and came up to the Central Coast. I don't come up to the central coast much so I got dropped off at Tuggerah Station. I thought I could walk from Tuggerah to the entrance and then I was checking maps and I was like, oh gosh, I can't do this.

Brendan: We'll come back to that. Is that where your love affair for long distance running came from?

Alex: Yeah, part of. I arrived, did a week of camping and learning, and visited all the other organizations here on the central coast. We did get a tour of The Glen and I spent a day up at the time at the end, which was The Glen Hunter Valley site at the time, met the board and I'm going to have to say that first meeting with the board was when the love affairs started.

It was run by, at the time, five very passionate Aboriginal women on the board and learning about their stories of why they're on the board, that was it. I fell in love with their purpose. I felt the passion and the meaning behind what they stood for, why they were there, why they loved The Glen so much.

Several of them, I'm sure won't mind me disclosing, but have lost loved ones through drug and alcohol addiction. Their purpose for being on the board and part of the organization is to make sure the next generation doesn't go through the similar unnecessary suffering and pain that they've been through. Hearing all that, I was just bawling in and how I could help.

I sat in that board meeting, I listened to their vision, their ideas, and started ticking in my head. The spreadsheet started in my head of how I could help, where I could add some value, and really support them to help more people.

Brendan: The HSC came flooding back and all of a sudden you had an eight year plan drawn up. How do I go from volunteering to the next step to the next step to the next step?

Alex: I think if there was an image of my head, it would be lots of little spreadsheets floating around.

Brendan: Overdrive. How did The Glen get its name?

Alex: I might start with the founder of The Glen was a man named Cyril Hennessy. He was a parole officer who worked in jails and saw a lot of people coming in and out of jail, not because they were bad people, but because they were sick. They suffered from addiction issues. He identified that because he suffered from some of his own.

Unfortunately, his second son passed away from a drug overdose, and his name was Glen Hennessy. That's how The Glen started. That was the motivation, the purpose, and the why, behind why Cyril wanted to start The Glen and make a change, and offer an alternative to the incarcerated to being incarcerated in the criminal justice system, and wanted to provide rehabilitation for people like Glen and people who needed help.

Brendan: Your involvement with The Glen, you've been there eight years?

Alex: Yeah, just over eight years since I first first met The Glen.

Brendan: When you came into The Glen, probably more when you became, I guess, an employee of The Glen, what's driven you? We know they're helping people and we know the purpose, but what's driven you and the change you want to see in your involvement and your influence through being involved?

Alex: I think what's driven me is it comes back to the clients. I think what drives me always is meeting new clients. Seeing them is always what drives me to improve. If I look at all the projects and achievements of the last eight years, it's always about how we can continue to serve our clients better, if that makes sense.

We say that we're providing physical, mental, and spiritual healing. How can we improve a bit in each of those categories constantly? For example, even in physical, small little projects like upgrading the gym, offering better food, having more organized personal training classes going up for sport, I think it's always about what the needs of the clients are to keep me driven and finding more opportunities to help people.

We get so many people reaching out to The Glen for help. The data we showed last month, over 170 people applied to come into our centers. That's 170 people who are suffering, who are needing help, who are putting their hand up to change.

Obviously, the rehab centers can't service more, so I'm always trying to think of ways about how we can be helping them in some way or another, whether that's referring them to another service, providing some kind of counseling, or some outreach support to ensure we're supporting them. The guys, the people who do get into rehab, we're making sure we're doing the best job that we can to make sure that this is there. They come in and they don't need our service again.

In a nutshell, what drives me are the clients. I love hearing the stories of ex-clients three or four years down the track. One of the guys messaged me, who was here two years ago, the other day and told me he's buying his first house. He's got his kids back in his life. That's what drives me. I love hearing the stories and if we can keep getting better.

Brendan: Fantastic stories, isn't it?

Alex: All the time. I'm driven to keep improving to make sure that we can keep getting and hearing more and more of those stories.

Brendan: Yeah, one of those success stories was Ethan, who was a guest on a number of podcasts ago. We spoke to him and it's fantastic. Another person speaking, unbelievably highly, of The Glen, what they've done for him, where he's going to now, and where he'll go into the future. It's something you're very, very proud of, isn't it?

Alex: Absolutely. Ethan, I sometimes even forget that he was a client.

Brendan: He's pretty short too. He's  hard to see sometimes, so you can forget about it.

Alex: People rub that into him. I might back off on that joke when Ethan hears this.

Brendan: Yeah. We'll edit that.

Alex: We're friends and running buddies. With that, obviously, we still message each other. He has an amazing story to hear. Everything that he's doing now, I kind of get speechless. It's so awesome to see him finding his purpose and seeing him do well. I know his family as well. I know how proud the donor is of him. I think it's awesome.

Brendan: How do you make that would have to be an unbelievable decision on who doesn't get into The Glen? How do you make that?

Alex: On the surface level, we do have some criteria on who gets into making sure that we run a safe center. We always make sure that being in a 35 or 20-bed facility, we need to make sure that we provide a safe environment. There are some certain types of criteria. We want to make sure that the clients that we have are the right service that are supporting the clients that come in.

Obviously, we can't be everything for everyone, if that makes sense. We don't have full-time psychologists or doctors and nurses. Our program is run on community, stakeholders, and volunteers. We've got to work out who's the right fit for our service.

At the moment, we're still very full. Like I said before, when we're not the right fit, we still want to provide some kind of help, whether that's online, group counseling sessions. We have our outreach workers. We have some amazing partnerships with a lot of other rehabs in this sector. If they're not right for us, we want to make sure we refer them to others.

If there are gaps in the sector, where there needs to be an organization that serves as a particular group, then we're out there and helping lobbying together. I think when services work together to help fill the needs and gaps, that's when we're all working well.

Brendan: What sort of advice do you give clients? Again, I know you're the CEO, and there are lots of people in the organization that are interacting with clients, but what advice do you give or what advice do you give the people you're leading in how you help these people, the men and women of The Glen, that come in that are frankly lost? How do you help them find their purpose and their path in life?

Alex: It comes back to our whole model of care. I think we take a very strength-based approach to how we help people. Of course, everyone got strengths and abilities. It's helping them by giving people the opportunity to share their skills, their gifts or abilities with each other. I think that's probably the starting point—for people to help realize what they're good at. I think that gives people their self-worth, their self-value, and confidence. I think that's a huge starting point.

Finding purpose is hard. I think it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of trying. I think that's probably the second part, to try, to have a go. For me, I always love to give everything a go, a try. That's how you start to realize what you like and what you don't like, what you're good at and what you're not good at.

When I was in school, I never played team sports. I was always playing the most individual sport where I didn't need to talk to people. It's swimming and the library.

Brendan: Now you're doing a podcast talking to thousands.

Alex: This isn't a good example of giving everything a go. Stepping outside your comfort zone. I really struggled with public speaking. Five years ago, if you asked me to go on podcasts, I'd probably just break into a ball of anxiety and I used to say no.

Brendan: That's why I waited five years, mate.

Alex: I think that's the second one. Just try everything. When I first started at The Glen, I tried playing touch footy, and then that's when it really solidified my notion that I don't like team sports.

Brendan: And the team does not need to be on their team either?

Alex: Yeah. Just giving everything a go. To me, in life, there's no such thing as failing, only learning. If you enjoy doing something, and it gives you confidence, and it makes you feel good, you keep doing it and keep consistent.

Brendan: That no failing, only learning, and even just what you said there about consistency or consistency, there's something again that you'd said somewhere. I've never heard you say this, but I know that you live and breathe. It's actually not what you say. There was something I found about your words, discipline leads to habits, habits lead to consistency, and consistency leads to growth. That's profound. How the hell did you come up with it?

Alex: I must have Googled it somewhere. I draw a lot of my inspiration and motivation from books and podcasts. I think that was one I must have read somewhere.

Brendan: What does it mean to you?

Alex: The first point about discipline, to me, that's really important. Discipline, again, comes back to purpose. I know my purpose is to help people. To help people, I need to be the best version of myself all the time and to be disciplined in looking after myself physically, mentally, and spiritually, because I'm no good to anyone if I'm not running well.

Discipline means, again, if I know that that's what I'm meant to do, and discipline is saying no to a lot of things, it's making sure that I have a good routine that I stick to. If things come their way and it's going to shake that routine a bit, I have to say no. I guess when it comes to discipline, physical exercise is really important to me.

Most mornings, I go for a jog. On most weekends, I do a bit of a longer run. There are times that things come and can shake that routine a bit. I need to make sure if I adjust, I kind of just have to say no. It's my habit, and I know that that's what's going to help me be at my best. Yeah, discipline.

Once you start getting discipline and start doing it, I find that my body gets into a bit of muscle memory, and it just keeps doing it. Muscle memory is kind of what your habits are. Now if I wake, I wake up, and I don't even need to think about it. My body kind of just puts on my joggers and goes for a run.

I love cooking. I learned cooking through my mom. For me, going home and whipping up a really nice healthy meal for 15 minutes, that's just a habit now. You've heard the saying a lot, but we are creatures of habit. We have a choice through discipline, whether we make them good habits or bad habits. You got to be pretty disciplined to not stray away from that.

Now there are so many distractions in life. There are times that if I mentally get trained, I open up YouTube or Instagram and start going through reels. If I don't pull myself up and be disciplined, I can be on that thing for hours.

Brendan: All of us can.

Alex: Yeah, and that then becomes a new habit. Obviously, I set little limits on how much I spend time on social media. I make sure I spend the right time on emails. I could be spending 24/7 checking emails and reading a reply.

I'm being very disciplined in blocking out time to work on my priorities and what's important. I think that's the start of discipline, but then you get into a bit of a habit. Once you get into the habit of doing the good things or the right things and the important things, you just get into a bit of a flow. I know my flow and I don't get distracted anymore.

Brendan: We'll dive into a bit more of that in your running expertise soon. But before going to that, I just want to stick with The Glen. You've been there a while. You've been the CEO in a while. What are you most proud of?

Alex: There are so many things. I think the thing I'm most proud of is seeing now and after eight years as a whole team of leaders and managers coming behind me. I've been very lucky to work with some amazing colleagues. They all know who they are. Seeing them now, oftentimes, some of them run the rehab better than I run it. I'm pretty proud of that.

At the men center, I look at our team and the staff members. Most of them are all fathers. Most of them have been through our program. I think seeing them being positive role models for their kids, and I know all their kids as well, I think that's what I'm really proud of.

It's making a generational impact. Sometimes I see them bring their kids and they're running around on the veranda and running into my office. I love seeing that. I think that's what makes me pretty proud.

Brendan: Thinking about the clients, again, your experience over this time there, and what you've seen, what holds, specifically the client or the clients back, from finding their way finding their purpose?

Alex: I wouldn't say there's a single specific thing. One thing that always sticks out to me is the Serenity Prayer. You got to accept the things you cannot change, I guess, and then change the things you can. I think that comes back to that.

I think a lot of people kind of look at the outside world. What's external that's causing them the issues? But at the end of the day, the only thing that we can change is our own, how we react to the environment, how we respond, how we think, our own mindset.

The second part of the Serenity Prayer is that you're going to have the courage to change the things you can. I think, looking at ourselves internally and changing ourselves is the hard part. We can talk about, I can blame this, we can blame that, we can make excuses. But at the end of the day, the only person who can change us is ourselves.

I think looking internally can be very challenging and very hard. I think that's where courage plays a really, really important part. There's a start. You've got to take full responsibility. You got to take a lot of responsibility for yourself and work out how you can change the way you think, how you respond to things, and learn positive ways to deal with situations.

To me, I think that's a challenge not just for our clients, but I think it's a challenge for everyone. I find that to be a challenge every day as well. When things don't go our way, it's like, if I look at this week alone, we get thrown lots of curveballs. There's COVID, there are floods, there's sickness, there's under resourcing, and lots of stuff happening. I can't control a lot of that, but we can control how we respond, how we deal with it.

I think when you get into that mindset of accepting and taking responsibility for how you adapt and deal with it, I think that's the starting point. We have a saying we have at the Glen here that we don't save lives. We don't change people. We just provide the environment for people to change themselves. That's what they do.

I think that's what the clients, when they come into The Glen, that's their journey. It's their journey to work out. We provide a lot of tools and opportunities, and they change. They do the changing. We have a little bit of influence, but they do it.

Brendan: Unfortunately, the majority of people around the world, at least the research says, they're unhappy in their environments. They could be happier in other environments. What advice would you give the masses, those that are listening to this or watching this, to help them on a path of finding whatever that good thing is, that thing that's going to fill their cup?

Alex: People who want to change their environment, I think it's starting off out. For me, I think it's about perspective. I've been very lucky to travel to a lot of countries in this world. I've been to some of the poorest regions. I think happiness comes from within.

I'm a pretty simple person. I'm not that materialistic or have many things. I think the environment plays a part, but it's how you see it.

I remember one time, it's a quick story. I was living in London. I was living in a place called Battersea. You have to kind of walk. You get off at, I think, south Clapham station. You got to walk down this pretty dark road to get to our house.

At the time, you kind of got to walk through all the social housing blocks. There's a few little ghettos and there are kids just mucking around on the street. I had a flatmate at the time who walked in and said, I hate walking down this street. I feel so a bit sketchy, and I feel very scared, and dangerous. But when I walked down, I just loved it. I love the activity, I love the laughter.

I saw this house that was just always, you could hear the noise. You could hear people singing and it's just noisy. I actually walked up, knocked in, and checked it out. I actually met, it was a little organization. It was called The Elays Network. It's a Somali community center.

They'd have their prayers there. They have a little youth club. They play table tennis, and I just loved it. I actually ended up volunteering there and setting up a homework club, and helped with some funding applications. I always look at that, because I look at it straight. For me, those were some of my most happy memories. There's someone else, it was always a bit.

It was the most scary. I think to change our environment, we can't change our environments. We can try. As humans, we always try to change our environments. But really, if you change your mindset and change your perspective, I think that's where the starting point can be.

Brendan: Let's hope everyone's got a mom like your mom, Heidi, who can help you change that perspective, because it sounds like a great example of the story you shared earlier about the homeless person and what you see.

Alex: Yeah, exactly. It's how you see everything. It's how we see ourselves as well. Sometimes I'll look at myself and I'll put myself down. I'm always anxious, I'm always nervous. But I look back, and I guess that anxiety  actually helps me be a really good planner and organizer. It fixed me a half decent. I can draw a half decent risk management plan as  well.

Brendan: You could do anything to excel, mate.

Alex: Totally, yeah.

Brendan: Classic. The Glen. I know that you will move on from The Glen at some point and maybe at some point in the near future. What do you hope to achieve at The Glen before you go?

Alex:  I think The Glen will always be part of my life. I never see it as us leaving. I think it's always been The Glen. Coming to the Central Coast, The Glen has been my family here. Obviously, my family's overseas. They'll always be a part of me.

I'll never really see it as I'll be leaving. But what I do want to achieve is just to make sure that it's in safe hands. Whether that's through the right policies or procedures, the right team. I'm making sure that, I guess, the legacy or leave is that there's going to be the right people and right structures to take it to the next level.

I came in with some of my skills and background from the KPMG world and few of my communities, my volunteering world. I feel like I've added my mark and left a few good things behind, a few good ways things are done. The biggest thing I want to achieve here is to make sure that there's the people to take it even further.

Brendan: Where does running fit into your life apart from being crap at team sports? You had no other choice.

Alex: Exactly. Where can I be the most isolated? Running in the mountains with no one.

Brendan: Running away from people.

Alex: I've been doing bits of jogging and stuff. Even when I was at KPMG and I worked, I did the city to serve. I did little odd pieces of running. I may not ever call myself a runner. I just call myself a bit of a fast jogger, I think.

It was always my way to relax. If I'm having a bad day, I'll go out in the afternoon and go for a jog. It might even just be a solid power walk. Again, my mom's back in the scene. She loves going for walks and bushwalking. We'd just go together and we'd have lots of our deep and meaningful chats about life, about purpose, about death.

Death always comes up with a bit of a topic. I think it's actually a really good thing. Some people find it weird, but we always talk about death. We actually practice our eulogies and stuff. She used to tell me what song she wanted in hers. I tell her what songs I want in mine.

Brendan: Great to have that sort of preparation, I think, isn't it?

Alex: Yeah, anxiety squashed. I know those chats actually remind me of purpose again. What do I want to be remembered for? But back to running, running has been a way for me to chill out, to distress, and to gather my thoughts.

Working in the drug and alcohol sector, my first few years, I found it really hard. You're in a residential facility. You're in a bit of an emotional bubble with clients, with staff. Emotions are high when there's a constant crisis. There's stuff moving. There are so many moving parts to running a residential facility, a charity. It's a business. It's so many stakeholders.

I always felt that to stop my emotional hum. I generally thought I learned how to be emotionally balanced. When I started working at The Glen, there were days that my emotional center kind of went off course a bit. I dealt with it through just running around the trails of the Central Coast and some beautiful forests and national parks. I found so much peace.

I love running on sand, as well as some beautiful beaches. Just running on the sand and watching the sunrise. It got me to calm and sense it again. It's just a hobby. I did my first marathon in 2018, the Sydney Marathon. At the time, running was a big part of The Glen program as well. We had a running group.

I really started getting more and more involved in running because as staff, we lead by example. We're talking to our clients about balance, about physical, mental, spiritual health. At the time we're running, I wasn't at my physical best. I was a bit overweight.

I wasn't doing much exercise, so I just started jogging. In 2018, I just started jogging. I just enjoyed it. I think I did a half marathon. I think I did the [...]. Then in September 2018, I did my first marathon.

Brendan: You've done a few since then.

Alex: Yes.

Brendan: Currently, you hold the Australian record. You're the only Australian to run 10 marathons in 10 days, sub four hours for every marathon. You hold the record for the course on that marathon. You did that on the last day, on the 10th marathon. How do you do that?

Alex: In a nutshell, I'm not too sure.

Brendan: There's got to be something, because not everyone does enjoy running.

Alex: I just enjoy running.

Brendan: I've got these images of Forrest Gump just keep running, just keep running. All of the sudden, you've run across America and not even realize it. You just enjoy running.

Alex: My wife, she calls me Forrest Gump sometimes. At the time, I'd message her. I said, I'm just going out for a run. She'd miss me eight hours later. She's like, are you back yet? I'm like, no, I'm still out. She's like, don't lie to me. I'm serious. I'll have to take photos so she doesn't miss out, and I'll be home soon.

Brendan: What is the discipline, the habit forming, the consistency that's needed to even contemplate being able to achieve something like that?

Alex: After I did my first marathon, I remember doing it. At the end, I said, that wasn't too hard. I guess we don't know until we try. I picked this marathon to be this really, really hard thing that talks about this wall that you hit. The last 10Ks, there's a bit of suffering going on. It hurts a bit, but to me, it wasn't that bad.

After my first marathon, I said, I'll sign up to do a couple more. I might do an ultra marathon. If 42Ks wasn't right, maybe I'll try 50. 50Ks are actually not too bad too. Do a few more.

My running just started getting longer and longer. My training runs started getting longer. There's a curiosity in me that just loves exploring. I explored all the tracks around the Central Coast, The Great North Walk.

I've tried to find the fastest way that I can get to Sydney via the trails. I'll leave my parents home in Epping, and start The Great North Walk there, and just end up at the Hawkesbury.

Brendan: And then call mom. Can you pick me up?

Alex: Then she's like, get the train. It's just getting longer, and longer, and longer. I guess my curiosity just started to see where this would end up.

There's a website called Running Calendar to see what events are on. It was last year, 2021, where there were 10 marathons in 10 days. I'm like, this looks hard. I'm like, I'll give that a go.

I do run most days. Sometimes it's 10K, sometimes it's 5K, sometimes it's 20K. I was like, let's see what it's like to run 10 marathons in 10 days. Last year, I did it. It's a bit of guesswork, guessing my nutrition, how it'd feel, my dinner prep.

It was all a bit of an experiment, I guess, to see if I could do it. I guess I did it last year. But at the end, I thought, oh, well, I could have probably prepped a bit better, I could have trained a bit better, I could have organized my aid stations a lot better.

This year, I just want to see what I can actually do. I just see my potential. I think that curiosity to see my potential and know my potential landed this year to do 10 marathons. Actually, I'm part of a running club. It's called the Achilles Hunter Central Coast, which is a running club for people with vision impairment. One of my running buddies, Shane...

Brendan: He founded that?

Alex: Yeah. Shane Allen is a good friend. He got a ticket to run in the New York Marathon. He actually said he wants to do it in under four hours. He said this a few years ago.

At the time, I said, oh, four hours. I'll do my first rounds in four hours in 15 minutes. I was like, oh, four hours? I'd better try and get a bit quicker if I'm going to help him train. I slightly kind of got quicker.

I don't really train for speed. Actually, I just train for fun. I just run for fun. Like I said, running for me is a way to de-stress. It helps me mentally probably more than it does physically. I did want to test myself out physically just to see where I'm at. I made a goal to try and run the marathon in four hours.

The first day was going to be my main day. If I could get the first day done in four hours, I knew I might be okay for the rest of it. I planned my pace. I planned my nutrition. I planned my shoes, my clothes. I planned everything. I have an awesome spreadsheet.

Brendan: I bet you could probably sell that spreadsheet.

Alex: Yeah.

Brendan: It might be a small market, but anyway.

Alex: Actually, I say anyone who wants to do it. I love seeing other people run. When I'm not running on weekends, I'm volunteering at events because I just love seeing others reaching their potential as well.

Brendan: How many other crazies go in that event?

Alex: I think we had five who did all 10. We had five runners from all different parts. Maybe we had a few more than that. There are different people who came and did different days. Some do five and five days, some did seven and seven, others did three. I think there were five who finished, or 10. I know they're crazy. I probably think I'm crazy, too.

Brendan: Actually, you're king of the crazies, mate, because you were the best crazy there.

Alex: I don't think I'm crazy. I just like jogging. I'm just a casual jogger.

Brendan: That keeps going, and going, and going. Where's the off switch?

Alex: The off switch nearly came to me throughout the middle of it. My first five days, I had a very detailed plan that I would kind of just get a little bit quicker each day. I knew from the first time I did it, how my body would react, and where the sore points were, and where I needed to look after myself. It was day six where I started getting a bit tired. I got a little bit fatigued for some reason on day six.

Brendan: After the five previous marathons?

Alex: Yeah. Really, it was a bit of mental fatigue, because every kilometer, I was keeping track of how fast I was going. The whole time I was running, there were some awesome math calculations happening in my head of how much I needed to run, and how far I had left, and what pace I needed to do. I just kind of got mentally fatigued by doing that.

Day seven, I kind of gave myself an hour. I said, you run because it's your way to de-stress. It's your meditation. Just forget about trying to do it for under four hours and just enjoy it. I think when I gave myself that out, I started enjoying myself a lot more without the pressure of looking at my watch, looking at my pace, and doing things like that.

From day seven onwards, I started getting my fastest. I'm just out there enjoying it. Because it's stretched over 10 days, you don't know the weather conditions as well. Some days, it was pouring rain. Other days, it was hot. Other days, it was foggy, it was frosty, it was slippery.

Day seven, I just let go of that. I remembered my why, I remembered my purpose, and just went out, then just jogged. I started going faster and faster. On day nine in the afternoon, we had a guy there called Mark [...] who does all the recording. He records all these races, which is why I knew.

I checked with him first and said, hey, Mark, has anyone else done these 10 marathons in 10 days under four hours? He goes, let's check the records. I'm sure someone has done something similar in the past, but maybe it hasn't been recorded at an event. He goes, yeah, and he kind of gave me the challenge.

He said, you know the course record for this particular track is 3 hours and 32 minutes. I was like, oh, no, I didn't know that much. When I got home, I was like, day 10, I got nothing to lose. I might as well give it a crack. I did this time. I did go.

I knew that if I was to break this, I had to run every K under five minutes. I just ticked them at my watch and checked that I ran under five minutes each K. I did that photo right afterwards. I finished in three hours and 31 minutes, because I didn't want to go. I just stayed close to it.

Brendan: What's the next challenge in the running map for Alex?

Alex: Now I'm doing a lot longer, I mean, a few longer runs.

Brendan: They weren't long enough, those 420 odd kilometers in 10 days.

Alex: I'm doing a few 100K, 100 mile runs. I've signed up. I love the people I run with. I think one of the big things of running 10 marathons in 10 days, you're running past your fellow runners constantly. I think the camaraderie and support from them also was a huge factor in getting through it. There's so much.

We had dinner together afterwards. We chat. When you have five pretty crazy runners chatting, you come up with some crazy ideas. I learned a lot from them about what's out there. I've learned about some 200 mile runs, which run annually. There's one called The Delirious WEST, there's the Irrational SOUTH. I'm going to do one of them next year as well.

Brendan: I happened to meet Pat Farmer A little while back. Again, people can look up his credentials in the running space. That's what's coming. If you haven't met Pat before, you guys need to get together, and there'd be some even crazier stuff coming up, I think.

Alex: The Central Coast has some of the best endurance athletes in this country. The Terrigal Trotters, I don't run with them often. But through the events, and volunteering with The Glen, and being part of there, you hear some just amazing, amazing running stories.

Brendan:  As you said before, there's such a great environment on the Central Coast. It's a beautiful landscape, beautiful bushland, and beautiful sea. It's beautiful.

Alex: It's everything. It's everything here.

Brendan: Enough to take your mind off the pain, at least for a little time.

Alex: Yeah. In hindsight, yeah, it does get painful.

Brendan: I'm glad you're honest about that, mate.

Alex: Good pain. If anyone thinks they can just wake up and do 10 rounds in 10 days, yeah, there's a bit of pain.

Brendan: You'd advise against it. Do some training?

Alex: A little bit. There's a couple of years, and conditioning, and training that goes into it.

Brendan: You mentioned a couple of times, maybe not use this word sort of therapeutic around running on how therapeutic that is for the distressing and part of your mental health requirement. What do you think you'd be like if you didn't find that outlet? How would that impact your ability to live this purpose-driven life?

Alex: I honestly couldn't imagine life without it now. I think we all have to find our own escape sometimes. Obviously, working in the drug and alcohol space, you kind of see people often working from a corporate environment as well. I often see people try to escape stress through drinking, through drugs, through alcohol, through medication.

We all have to find our own little escape sometimes. For me, running is my escape. I think time and time stops for me. I forget it, but when I'm running in beautiful bush land or across the beach and stuff, all my worries in the world just kind of disappear. If it wasn't running, I'd probably find some other avenue to do it.

Besides running, there's probably a lot of other things which I subconsciously do, where time stops as well. This sounds incredibly nerdy, but I can get lost on an Excel spreadsheet for hours.

Brendan: I think we've gathered that through this interview, mate.

Alex: If I'm not running, I'm building these awesome plans, spreadsheets, and goal setting. When I'm not doing that, I'm reading a lot. I'll find reading and learning from soaking in the wisdom of past leaders and inspirational figures. It helps me escape as well. If I'm not doing that, I'm listening to some awesome podcasts, listening to audio books.

If I'm not doing that, I'm volunteering. I'm volunteering, doing something positive, and chatting to people. I volunteer for my local running club. I volunteer at running events. I still do my cleanups as well.

The most recent one was last year. We went through, I remember, the state forest and cleaned that up. I think it's always finding different hobbies which fill the cup. For me, those are the hobbies which fill mine.

Brendan: Volunteerism in Australia, the statistics are dropping. Less people are volunteering. It's been that way for a long time. Pull out your magic wand. How do you change that? Because you're doing enough for many people, but there are many people out there that it's not a priority for them.

Alex: Yeah, I think if there was a magic wand, I think it comes two fold. (1) To reduce the barriers to volunteering and make it easier. I see a lot of things popping up, where it's clearly a little bit of a brokerage system of linking up people's passions with opportunities to volunteer. I think that needs to be easier.

I think we're heading to a space, where there's so much kind of risk aversion or paperwork and all this kind of stuff involved. I think we got to really look at reducing the barriers. I think there are people out there who really do want to help.

I think it's human to help. I think within all of us, there's something there. The belief that, what I said before, everyone's got strengths, everyone's got abilities that they can share. Everyone's got their gifts and skills. I think if there was a way for the magic wand to reduce the barriers that link people with their right passions and pursuits, I think that'll be a huge step forward in volunteering.

(2) Making volunteering more mainstream. I hear so many amazing stories of people volunteering. When you scroll through your social media feeds these days, there's a lot of gossip, negative news, and stuff. I think just sharing some more positive stories of volunteering, what it means, and how it can help, by helping others, you're helping yourself, I think that's what's going to inspire more people to get out there and just have a go.

I think that's a third thing as well. (3) Just having a go. People stepping forward, it's scary. You're doing something that's different, doing something that's uncomfortable. You have to get out of your comfort zone sometimes. If you can help people to empower people, to have the courage to step out of their comfort zone and try something new, I think that's a good thing.

Brendan: Let's link what you've just said back to that shirt of yours, The Glen and the emu on it. I was saying before we recorded it, I'd actually not realized the significance or hadn't joined the dots about the emu on the shirt. Tell us about it.

Alex: I'll share the story. My colleague, Chris Mason, tells a story much better than I do.

Brendan: Maso?

Alex: Maso. He got the nickname, Maso. I love Maso. I'm probably going to butcher it.

Brendan: He can give you feedback later.

Alex: This is dinner one, the emu. This artwork was done by Carly Cassidy. This specific one was done for a sports tournament a few years ago. Now it's become, I guess, the emblem of our running group.

Brendan: I have to say, I'll just stop one sec. Carly's developing a bit of a name for herself in this podcast, because Ethan shared his Rabbitohs tattoo and the design that Carly had drawn. Well done, Carly. What a champion. She's awesome.

Alex: She's a beautiful person. We've known Carly for years now. She's been the artist. She started as the art teacher at The Glen. She's got one of the biggest hearts I know. Now she's the chief operating officer of The Glen For Women. She has an incredible story as well.

She drew this artwork. The meaning behind it is that the coat of arms has two animals, a kangaroo and an emu. They're there because they can't go backwards. That's the philosophy of our running crew, always forwards and never backwards. That's a reflection of life at The Glen, I guess. It's looking forward, looking at the future challenges, goals. The past is the past, and we move forward.

These shirts, they're not given. They're always earned as well. Anyone who participates in the running crew has to do three training runs, and then they earn their shirt. That's the story. Maso can give me a bit of a score out of 10 for that one.

Brendan: That's a great story. When we think about that, and in relation to The Glen, and formed the basis of average support for Aboriginal people going through drug and alcohol rehabilitation, how is the emu looking forward given your experience working so closely in the Aboriginal culture and Aboriginal people about looking forward?

I asked that just on the premise that, in what you're saying, I'm thinking there's so much looking back around Aboriginal culture, and what may have happened in Australia, and all those sorts of things. What's the future, looking forward? I feel like there's more looking back than looking forward. What's your view given that you're immersed in this situation?

Alex: I'm very lucky to work in an environment at The Glen, where it's always about looking forward. We do a lot of work with supporting clients to work with their past, but we balance it out by looking forward and empowering them to live the life that they want to live, giving them all the opportunities, whatever that may be.

As you know, Maso runs all our cultural activities, where there are opportunities to learn. We have a transition program, where you can support clients into employment, into housing, and getting qualifications.

In general, I think it's indigenous and non-indigenous people. Looking forward, I think that's life, building the life that you want to live. For us, it's just giving everyone opportunities to do that.

Brendan: Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the situation is. You can change the future, you can't change the past.

Alex: Yeah, exactly. I guess that comes back to that Serenity Prayer. You've got to accept the things you cannot change and change the things you can. I love working with our board and our team, because we're always about achieving our purpose, which is to keep helping more people better. That's all about improvement, about drive.

One thing that always sticks in my mind working with the Aboriginal community, I'm very blessed and very grateful that I've got to work with a lot of people. One of our board members once told me about the seventh generation principle. What that is is that it's the decisions of today that affect the next seven generations. To me, that really embodies everything you just said. That's totally the future. Future planning is about looking forward.

Those pieces of wisdom, I think, there's actually a lot to learn from that. It's actually all about looking forward, and looking forward not just short-term. We're looking forward to a longer term than we do in our current society. That's what gives me purpose as well.

We might be helping one person now, but we're actually helping the next generation. We're helping the kids, we're helping their kids, we're helping grandkids. That really sticks to me all the time. The decisions of today affect the next seven generations. That's looking forward.

Brendan: When you're on one of these walks with your mom, Heidi, you mentioned before about talking about what you'd like someone to say about you in the eulogy. What do you want someone to say about you?

Alex: He's an organized bloke who runs ultra marathons for fun?

Brendan: Someone's already saying that about you. What else?

Alex: We have a laugh. We actually joke around a lot, and I always joke around about things. I would say it hurts. You don't know. Don't you dare say that.

Brendan: What legacy do you want to leave?

Alex: I see myself as just a simple person who just really had a go at helping other people, helping others live a better life. Working in the drug and alcohol sector, you see so much. I see so much unnecessary suffering and pain. If I can live a life where I can help a couple of people live a happier life without as much suffering, I'm pretty stoked.

Like you said before, my very private person, I'm very low key. I just want to make sure that at my funeral, people don't spend too much money. Keep it low key, don't waste too much money on it.

Brendan: And if they got to spend, make sure it's tax deductible.

Alex: Yeah, make sure it's tax deductible. Find a cheap venue. I'm gone already. It's okay. I guess that's the conversation I had with my mom. My legacy is just a simple bloke who just wanted to help out.

Brendan: You're a lifelong learner. What has had or who has had the greatest impact on your leadership journey?

Alex: I've had a lot of mentors throughout my life. If I look at every chapter of where I've helped in the refugee sector, in KPMG, even in the Somali community leaders, every person who I've learned from has pushed me, I think, I will definitely remember all the lessons. I can be my own worst enemy sometimes, and I don't see my own value. I think the greatest mentors I've had are people who have seen the strength in me, and my abilities, and pushed me to reach my potential.

At KPMG at the time, I worked with multiple partners. When I was there, I was sitting in the office, it's 9:00 meeting, a takeaway dinner. I was challenged to the point where I was questioning whether I wanted to do this. But I realized that some of these projects that I'm working on, I look back at now, I learned so much from them. The partners that I worked with just challenged me to be at my best.

When I was working in the detention centers, I had a mentor there who was always giving me advice on how to run events, how to coordinate things, and how to work with volunteers. Everything I learned there. I walked away with it.

Now working at The Glen and working with Joe for the last eight years on the board, they always challenge me and push me. They make sure I'm doing things the right way and the best way. There are times it's stressful. Having so many mentors in life, I know that it comes from a good place, it comes from a kind place, it comes from a place where they want to be helping more people, helping The Glen, helping clients. It comes from there.

They want you to make sure I'm at my best, I reach my potential, and I'm always getting challenged and learning. I've had a lot of mentors. When I don't have mentors live, all the books I read are mentors as well. If I struggle with something, I always find a book which can help me deal with different situations and scenarios.

Brendan: Alex Lee, you're a tough man. You've got to live and you're living a life driven by purpose, absolutely. You're a friend first, client second. You're still alive, and you're already making my life much better. Mate, I appreciate you very much. Thanks for being a fantastic guest on The Culture of Things podcast.

Alex: Thanks, Brendan.

Brendan: Keep it running, mate, for a minute. Tell us about some of your tattoos.

Alex: Every time I'd make a big decision in my life, I always mark it with some kind of tattoo. I got this one when I took my first career break at KPMG. I went to detention centers. This one when I moved to Thailand to run that charity for a year.

Brendan: What does that say?

Alex: It says equanimity in Sanskrit. What that means is equanimity, having your balance in your mind which is unshaken. When I have stressful situations in life, I look at that and make sure I maintain emotional balance. I've got cats, owls, and animals all over me. They all represent a little piece of me.

Brendan: Do you know how many times people have got their shirt off on The Culture of Things podcast?

Alex: Oh, no. Did Ethan take his shirt off?

Brendan: Ethan took his pants off to show his. All right, here, we have shorts on.

Alex: I don't know.

Brendan: What's here?

Alex: That's an angel.

Brendan: What's the significance?

Alex: This is probably my most recent one. Setting up The Glen For Women was a big four-year chapter of my life. I've dealt with a lot of challenges and a lot of hard times. I always got through it. There are days when I'm just like, oh, there must be angels looking after me.

There's one time, actually, it's a really stupid example. I drove to Sydney once from Wyong to Chatswood. Every light was green, and I got a parking spot straight away. I was like, jeez, I'm so lost.

Brendan: That never happens in Sydney.

Alex: There must be angels looking after me. I was having a bad day that afternoon and I was like, oh, this is so awesome. I've got a few everywhere. This is a samurai about strength and composure, like another book that I read. When you talk about discipline, consistency, and habits, the samurai in the past, where they embodied all of that with mental strength and courage.

I've got a cat and an owl on my chest. I think that represents the different sides of me. The cat, that's curious. It's always trying to do different things, have a go experiment,  and trying different things all the time. But then I have the owl, which is to represent wisdom, to know not when to pull myself back sometimes. What you can do, what you can't do.

Brendan: Why put these things on your body and not have a scrapbook?

Alex: Because I think these are things I want to remember forever. I lose scrapbooks.

Brendan: Fair point.

Alex: Yeah. I actually use them as a reminder. Here's another one. A little puzzle piece, but with the Chinese words compassion. I think what that symbolizes to me is the puzzle piece, we have a lot of puzzles and problems that we have to deal with in life. The best way to solve them, for me, comes back to compassion. I work out the most compassionate way to deal with it.

Brendan: I love puzzles.

Alex: I love puzzles, too.

Brendan: Forget homework club. We’ll start a puzzle club, mate.

Alex: Yeah. Oh, man. There's a lot of life puzzles we have to try and figure out, too.

Brendan: Isn't there?

Alex: Yeah.

Brendan: Have you got one significant tattoo about your mom?

Alex: No, not yet.

Brendan: Coming, is it?

Alex: I don't think she'll support me getting a tattoo.

Brendan: I think she's been pretty poor in trying to stop you.

Alex: Actually, she was the one who got it together at one point. Again, now she supports everything I do. Even if she hated it, she'd probably said it was all right. Some of them I got when we were traveling together as well. She'll go shopping and then, sorry mom, I'm just going to pop into the shop for 6 hours. I'll catch up with you when I'm done.

Brendan: Classic.

Alex: Yeah.

Brendan: I'm sure she can do some retail shopping for 6 hours, no dramas.

Alex: My mom, she got the best shopping. We always go to the markets together. That's one of our happy times as well. Her being a chef and a cook, we go to food markets. It's her happy place. Going there, talking to the shopkeepers, asking about what's fresh, what's not, picking through what's ripe in the food market. It's her happy place.

Brendan: It's one of the many things in my experience of spending time in Asia around the Asian culture that is just so important and so valuable, isn't it?

Alex: Yeah, food is such a big part of routine. In my family, we don't ask each other, how are you? We ask each other, have you eaten yet? What did you eat? It's different. I could do a whole podcast on culture, language, and stuff.

Brendan: You said you love cooking. Again, cooking is such a thing in so many cultures, particularly Asia around bringing people together. Then by yourself mate, you already made it.

Alex: Yeah. I love cooking at The Glen.

Brendan: That's the point. Yeah. That's your family here, isn't it? As you said.

Alex: That's my family here. I just bring what I know from my family and stuff to The Glen.

Brendan: All these, how many tattoos have you got?

Alex: Actually, I haven't really counted. Some have joined together, so I put the massive one there. I probably got 10 or 12.

Brendan: I know you said that they were all significant moments in your life, significant decisions, or whatever, but if you had to pick one, what's the one that comes to mind straight away?

Alex: It's probably the one on my ankle, which you can't see just yet. That's the one I got when I made the decision to leave KPMG and work at The Glen. It says the words, we rise by lifting others.

Brendan: We rise by lifting others. Brilliant. Thank you, buddy.

Alex: No worries.

Brendan: The single greatest quality a leader can have is humility. What is humility? In a nutshell, it's the ability to put other people's interests ahead of your own. Alex Lee epitomizes humility.

His behaviors continuously demonstrate how he puts other people's interests ahead of his own. His life and everything he does is driven by his purpose of helping others. As a leader, how are you demonstrating humility?

These are my three key takeaways from my conversation with Alex. My first key takeaway, leaders lead with purpose. Simon Sinek's work on purpose, and finding your why is well-known. Although it resonates with many, most don't take action on it. Finding and living your purpose is the game changer. Alex has found his purpose, and he leads with it every day.

My second key takeaway, leaders lead with consistency. They're consistent with what they do, how they behave, and how they show up every day. Alex quoted John Maxwell's Law of Consistency. Discipline leads to habits, habits lead to consistency, and consistency leads to growth. The best leaders understand it and lead with consistency.

My third key takeaway, leaders lead generational change. Think about some of the most famous global leaders, Mandela, Gandhi, Churchill, Luther King. They aren't great leaders just because they are great orators. They're great leaders because they had the foresight to think ahead and lead change that has and continues to impact generations.

In summary, my three key takeaways were, Leaders lead with purpose, leaders lead with consistency, leaders lead generational change. What were your key takeaways from the interview? Let me know at thecultureofthings.com, on YouTube, or via our socials.

Thanks for joining me. Remember, the best outcome is on the other side of a genuine conversation.

By the way, if you want to learn more about Alex's tattoos, check out Episode 81 bonus content on The Culture of Things YouTube channel.

Outtro (music): Thank you for listening to The Culture of Things podcast with Brendan Rogers. Please visit thecultureofleadership.com to access the show notes. If you love The Culture of Things podcast, please subscribe, rate and give a review on Apple podcasts and remember a healthy culture is your competitive advantage.